It’s been a rollercoaster of a month for Tal Minear. A creative and educational juggernaut in the world of audio fiction, Tal has been working tirelessly to make space for queer and trans voices in podcasting. A majority of projects they work on feature prominent queer and trans characters, from the spoiler-driven anthology series Someone Dies In This Elevator, to the delightful fantasy worlds in Sidequesting.

If you follow them on Twitter, you can see Tal’s advocacy goes outside the projects they work on as a voice actor and sound designer. When big podcast entities fuck up in providing safer spaces for queer and trans people, Tal holds those entities accountable (until Tal gets prevented from responding, that is). 

This is rarely the safest choice. During this summer’s Podcast Movement convention, Tal spoke up on Twitter about their discomfort with the placement and presence of The Daily Wire’s booth, and again when podcast host Ben Shapiro showed up unannounced and without a badge.

Tal and another out trans podcaster, Wil Williams, were on the receiving end of threats, calls to their workplaces, and doxxing attempts, after speaking up about what they experienced at the conference. 

Through all this, Tal has not been silenced. They’ve published two detailed posts on the matter: And I’d Do It Again, which came out the week after Podcast Movement, and Inaction is an Action: Moving Forward with Podcast Movement, a reflection four weeks post-conference.

Tal is still working, still holding the goliaths of our industry accountable, and still inspiring others to do the same.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Your audio fiction resume is impressive and varied. Do you have a favourite project? 

For sound design: Seen And Not Heard. It has such an interesting premise. The point-of-view character is Deaf. It was such a challenge nailing those scenes where we hear from her perspective. I got to work with Caroline Mincks and we would send audio back and forth until it was right. It made some really powerful moments in what is a very important show.

What have you been listening to lately? 

The Apollo Creator Showcase. Apollo gave a handful of creators money to make one podcast episode. Ester Ellis, who makes Goblet Wire and Station Blue, made a pilot called Whale Song, and it is everything I've ever wanted. It feels like Ester made it for me, specifically. The sound design is lush, beautiful, and amazing. The story is kind of like trans folklore. There are sea shanties, a psychedelic whale, and the music… my brain breaks when I try to explain it. It shows if you give people money, they make very good things.

What was the audio fiction community like when you were starting out?

Five years ago, audio fiction was a lot smaller; it felt a little bit more like a community than it does now. Audio fiction has really exploded over the past two years.

[Audio fiction] was and still is very white. People say podcasting has a low barrier to entry, when really, it has a low barrier to publication. It might be free to upload a podcast, but you're investing a lot of time, and in many cases, a lot of money into it. I've definitely seen a trend for the better of different communities uplifting non-white creators and showrunners. 

From the get-go, it was so queer. The first two fiction podcasts I listened to were The Bright Sessions and Welcome to Night Vale. People found that they could tell queer stories and just be themselves, and not have a network saying, “you can't air this” — because it's self-published.

When I started five years ago, I didn't identify as non-binary. I was still exploring my gender. Podcasting wasn't the thing that made me go, “I understand now.” But it was definitely part of the process. Being able to hear more perspectives from people who were trans and realizing, “Oh, I identify with a lot of this.”

It was ultimately a part of the journey where I landed that I am non-binary. I think today, just by virtue of more people making shows, there are more trans people making shows. But there can always be more!

I resonate with the audio fiction niche being chock-full with queers. You’re a gay audio fiction nerd; I’m a gay audio fiction nerd; there are so many of us.

It's so gay. I love it. There's a lot of joy in creating the representation that I would have benefited from growing up. Being able to tell stories where people can be queer, in whatever flavour they happen to be in, and we don't have to unpack that. You can have someone using they/them pronouns and never have a conversation about it. I think people are really drawn to that.

What have you been doing to bring audio fiction to big festivals like Podcast Movement and PodFest?

Podcast Movement’s audio drama track was started by Wil Williams and Elena Fernández Collins. I attended the second year. Now I submit talks, but I've also started submitting presentations that are audio drama adjacent. I think there's overlap between fiction and nonfiction that people don’t tend to observe.

When I see festivals with open submissions, I'm always thinking, “How can I tell people audio fiction exists? We gotta show them that this has value and this is worth it.”

What draws you to publicly calling out big names in the industry? 

I don't wanna be known for this. They just keep doing shit! [laughs] The position I have found myself in is a fairly privileged one; I have a day job in engineering that covers my expenses. 

I do sound design, voice acting and occasionally, writing. But most of the people that I do this for are indie audio fiction people who are usually in agreement with me. 

The “bigger” names that I “work” for are Realm and Apollo. They’re very kind people; they have my back. It allows me this element of freedom to make the people with “power” in the podcasting industry angry at me, because ultimately, I don't need anything from them. They're not gonna promote my shows? That's okay. Very few people are promoting audio fiction anyway. 

I have stuff to lose: I have my reputation. I have a bunch of people I work with. It's not like there are no stakes, but at the end of the day, the people who I yell at online can't really hurt me.

In your latest blog post, you said you’re waiting for a satisfying conclusion to Podcast Movement. What would that look like to you?

Just being able to let the breath I've been holding out, and know for sure: “Will I be trying to attend Podcast Movement again or not?” For a lot of my friends, they're already like, “No, fuck this. I'm never going.” And I respect that. 

But there's this part of me that wants that conclusion of knowing: Are you still gonna have the Daily Wire there? Are you still taking their money? Have you changed anything about your process moving forward because of this?

Even if they make completely the wrong call, it would still be satisfying, because I could wash my hands of the situation. I just wanna know what they've learned. Right now, they've apologized to one group, deleted it, apologized to the other group, and stated, “We'll do better with diversity and inclusion.” And I'm like, by apologizing to Mr. Shapiro? 

It feels disingenuous both ways.

You straight up cannot court both parties. God, it feels so dramatic to say it’s time for a reckoning in the industry. You need to decide who you're going to platform. 

I'm writing off PodFest; they’re never gonna change. But Podcast Movement, Podcast Academy, or the Podcast Magazine — they really have to look at their ethics and make a conscious choice. They've been able to get away with having a neutral image and just going unchallenged. 

We'll see if Podcast Movement makes the right call. Right now, I'm in a position where I am willing to continue being annoying and worm my way into these institutions and say, “Hey, do you know that trans people exist?” And make 'em decide. But it's fucking hard to do that. I don't think it's fair to expect every queer or trans person to do that. 

It takes so much energy and it almost never pays off.

So, what now? Do we continue to fight for ourselves in these spaces? Do we make our own spaces? Is there another option?

I would love to have a conference around queer podcasts and to create a place where it's not weird to have they/them pronouns. Every time I go to Podcast Movement, I get misgendered all the time, despite wearing multiple buttons. It’s just part of the experience. I accept it, but it would be so nice to go to a place where that doesn't happen all the time.

I think there's a lot of value in creating spaces that uplift queer and trans voices and allows those people to thrive, without having to just fight for rights.

Keep up with Tal on Twitter, or hire them for work through their website. If you want more great podcast recommendations, sign up for their newsletter, Podplane.

CANADALAND is looking for an editor in chief. Yep, Jesse Brown’s old job. Annual salary is $100-120k.

Global News Edmonton is hiring a part-time associate news producer. Apply by October 9. 

The Globe and Mail’s Arts & Books section is hiring a culture reporter.

Any sports fans in the readership? Sportsnet 650 in Vancouver is hiring a part-time producer and board operator.

CTV News Victoria is looking for a producer/anchor for their 11 p.m. newscasts. Deadline is October 14. 

CityNews Calgary is hiring a news director. 

Recent grads and students! Want to work at the Globe and Mail for the summer of 2023? Find out about how you can apply for their Summer Jobs program, which runs from early June through Labour Day. Pay starts at $1,117.85/week. Apply by October 30. 

CBC Winnipeg is looking for an associate producer for Radio. Apply by October 21.

CBC Whitehorse is looking for a full-time associate producer/technician for their morning radio show. Applications close October 21. 

CBC Thunder Bay is looking for a reporter/editor for their English services team. Apply by October 7. 

Another great workshop featuring a Fry is coming up! Producer Kattie Laur will be discussing the Canadian podcasting ecosystem for International Podcast Day, that’s TODAY at 2 p.m. Pacific time. 

Speaking of International Podcast Day… the team at JAR Audio is calling on International Podcast Day to be moved away from September 30. Right now it coincides with Canada’s Truth & Reconciliation Day, a day to recognize and reflect on the legacy of the residential school system in Canada. 

Here’s your reminder to check out the awesome upcoming workshops that Radio Boot Camp is hosting. Of note: perfecting chat-show production with WNYC alum John Asante, and a couple of interesting-sounding classes with Planet Money’s Karen Duffin.

Talk about great queer content. This week's new episode of Wider Lens features What We Do In The Shadows director Tig Fong. They dive deep into their past as a stunt performer, making a name for themselves as a queer, racialized creative, and how they’re creating space for marginalized voices in the TV industry. Here’s a taste of what you’ll hear: 

“When I came out in 2018, working on Titans, I was… I don't know. I was having a bad day. I was just pissed off because I was just like, man, things just never freaking change in stunts.

And then I'm like, wait a minute. I'm a genderqueer person of color… that is the stunt coordinator on – at that point – the biggest action show in the city. I would say that was change.

The problem is that I do realize that I am straight passing and cis passing. What remains would be for me to come out so that I can hold this space.

Not that so everyone else who is not coming out and self-identifying within stunts to come out -- cause they're not going to just because I did – but just so that they know that they belong and that there's hope.”

- Tig Fong

We want to hear from you! What are you looking for in your podcast news? Let us know by replying to this email. Thanks to Emily Latimer for editing this newsletter, and to Katie Jensen for designing it.

We’ll see you again on October 7. Until then, here’s an update from my cat Cynthia, who is enjoying the new bookshelf in my apartment. 

Yours in friends and fries,
max