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Editorial
Another busy year for Atheist Ireland
 Atheist Ireland held our 2022 Annual General meeting yesterday. We had another busy year, with our main focus being on our campaign for secular education.
We have made a complaint to the Comptroller and Auditor General and the Oireachtas Committee on Public Accounts, saying the Department of Education is misusing public funds by ignoring the constitutional funding conditions regarding not attending religious instruction.
We have also met with various bodies including the Department of Education and NCCA, the Ombudsman for Children re Education, the UN Children’s Rights Committee on the rights of the child (on behalf of us, Evangelical Alliance, and Ahmadi Muslims), and the OSCE.
We made submissions to various bodies including the UN Human Rights Committee re the ICCPR, the UN special rapporteur on combating intolerance based on religion or belief, the UN Committee on Economic Social and Cultural Rights, and various Oireachtas Committees.
We had a campaign about the religion question in the census, we gave a talk about atheism to student teachers from Mary Immaculate College, the movie Debutante, in which we were partners, won several awards, and we highlighted many issues in the mainstream media and our own social media.
Our committee for the coming year will be Michael Nugent as chairperson, Jane Donnelly as human rights officer, Helen O’Shea as secretary, Chris Hind as regional and teachers officer, and Sean O’Shea as finance officer. We can co-opt other members if possible and necessary. We look forward to another active year promoting atheism, reason, and ethical secularism. You can join Atheist Ireland here.
- Secular Sunday Editorial Team
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Éire Aindiach
Éire Aindiach
Chun ár gcuid feachtais a leathnú agus a neartú, tá sé beartaithe ag Éire Aindiach níos mó úsáid a bhaint as an Ghaeilge.
Ba mhaith linn meitheal a eagrú, chun cuidiú le:
- Polasaithe agus feachtais Éire Aindiach a phlé ar an raidió nó ar an teilifís
- Cuidiú le doiciméid ghaeilge a scríobh
- Bualadh le polaiteoirí chun stocaireacht a dhéanamh
Táimid i mbun aistriúcháin a dhéanamh ar dhoiciméid polasaí faoi láthair, agus teastaíonn cabhair uainn le aistriúchán agus profáil. Más maith leat bheith páirteach san iarracht seo, cur ríomhphost chugainn ag gaeilge@atheist.ie.
English translation:
To broaden and strengthen our campaigns, Atheist Ireland have undertaken to make more use of the Irish language.
We are looking to assemble a group of volunteers, to help with:
- Discussing our policies and campaigns on radio or tv
- Helping to write documents in Irish
- Meeting with politicians to lobby them
We are in the process of translating policy documents at the moment, and we need some help with translating and proofreading. If you would like to assist with this effort, please email us at gaeilge@atheist.ie.
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Atheist Ireland News
Atheist Ireland responds to Fergus Finlay about religious orders existing and ending their privilege
 Fergus Finlay has moved the goalposts in his response to our article about religious orders. He was originally talking about the right of religious orders to exist. Now he has shifted to talking about the legal consequences for individual people who break the law. We disagree with his original argument, and agree with his revised argument.
The background to the issue
Fergus wrote last week that we should not allow religious orders to exist. Atheist Ireland responded that religious orders have the right to exist, but not to the privilege and undue influence in public life that they have been given and have consistently abused.
Fergus has now responded by asking why people who cover up child abuse should not be disbarred as leaders of religious orders. We agree that they should, but that is not the same thing as saying that we should not allow religious orders to exist.
Let’s start by looking at Fergus’ original argument. He wrote:
“Why do we still allow these religious orders to exist? They are nothing more than vehicles for corruption and abuse, and they need to be shut down… Religious orders should have no recognition in law.”
Michael Nugent responded on Twitter:
“Like Fergus Finlay, I grew up resisting an authoritarian Ireland. I’m shocked to see Fergus now suggest making religious orders illegal. They should pay tax and be accountable to the law, but they have the same right to exist as any other group.”
Atheist Ireland responded in our article:
“Religious orders have the right to exist, but not to privilege and undue influence in public life. They have consistently abused that privilege and influence, and still do, especially in our education and health systems where public services are delivered.”
Fergus now points out that our article also said:
“In Ireland, we hand over control of most of our schools to an organisation that has enabled paedophiles and covered up their crimes, and whose Irish bishops have lied to and deliberately misled state tribunals about these crimes.”
And Fergus responds:
“As Father Dougal once said, ‘I’m hugely confused Ted’. When I call out the behaviour of the religious orders — in slightly more measured language, actually, than Atheist Ireland — I’m being authoritarian. But in its language, we’re handing over control to paedophiles and their protectors. Someone somewhere needs to get a grip.”
“I’d love people [by implication, including Michael Nugent and Atheist Ireland] to explain why people who run organisations that pay their taxes on time, but cover up the emotional, physical, and sexual abuse of children, shouldn’t be disbarred as leaders of their organisations in exactly the same way.
What we both want and how to do it
Let us clarify for Father Dougal and others who are confused. Both our description and Fergus’ description of the criminal behaviour of the Catholic Church are reasonable, and are consistent with the conclusions of State tribunals. We need to stop this criminal behaviour, make the criminals accountable, and ensure it does not happen again.
Where we differ with Fergus is how to achieve that outcome. Fergus argues that religious orders need to be shut down, and should have no recognition in law. We disagree with that solution, as it breaches the human rights to freedom of religion or belief, conscience, and association.
We believe the State should allow religious orders to exist, but should remove the privilege and influence that the State has given them and that they have consistently abused, particularly in the education and health systems.
For example, when Louise O’Keeffe took her case to the Courts about the failure of the state to protect her from sexual abuse in a publicly funded national School, the Supreme Court found that our Republic wasn’t responsible as the state ceded control of our schools to churches.
If we want to remove that privilege, we should start with the Constitution. Under the Irish Constitution the state is obliged to respect and honour religion. The President and Judges and Taoiseach must take a religious oath.
Removing these constitutional privileges will help us to remove the statutory privileges that religions also enjoy. Not only do they run most of our state-funded schools and many hospitals, but they have further privileges in our Equality and Charities laws.
We can remove those privileges without denying religious orders the right to exist.
Holding the people responsible accountable
Fergus then describes how our High Court has found a private sector enterprise guilty of revenue-related crimes, and the judge prohibited its directors from serving as directors of any company established under Irish law for the maximum period he could impose.
Fergus then asks:
“I’d love people [by implication, including Michael Nugent and Atheist Ireland] to explain why people who run organisations that pay their taxes on time, but cover up the emotional, physical, and sexual abuse of children, shouldn’t be disbarred as leaders of their organisations in exactly the same way.
I’d love them to explain why their organisations should “have the same right to exist as any other group” — as long as they pay their taxes. If cheating the tax system is grounds for disbarment, why isn’t destroying the lives of children?”
This is where Fergus is moving the goalposts from his original claim. He was originally talking about the right of religious orders to exist. Now he has shifted to talking about the legal consequences for individual people who break the law.
Firstly, we didn’t suggest that the only obligation on religious orders was to pay their taxes. We also said that they should be accountable to the law, and that the State should stop giving them privilege and undue influence. If that were to happen, of course they should have the same right to exist as any other group.
Secondly, we agree with Fergus that people who cover up the emotional, physical, and sexual abuse of children should be disbarred as leaders of their organisations. Indeed, we believe they should be tried for, at minimum, obstructing the course of justice, and if found guilty they should be sent to prison.
We can make these people accountable without denying religious orders the right to exist. Read online...
Parents, not church or state, have the right to provide religious and moral education
 The Catholic Bishops wrote to the Dept of Education in 2018, in relation to Circular Letter 0013/2018 issued by the Department of Education. This Circular obliged ETB schools to give students another subject if they exercised their right to not attend religious instruction. It recognised that schools should offer students anothers subject if they exercised their Constitutional right under Article 44.2.4 to not attend the NCCA Religious Education course.
The Catholic Bishops lobbying Letter to Minister Richard Bruton stated that:
As co-trustees, we are concerned, because in the Education Act 1998, responsibility for the moral and spiritual education of students rests is a matter for the trustees.
After this letter was sent to the then Minister for Education, Richard Bruton, the Catholic Church also had two meeting with Department officials to ensure that they got to continue to undermine parental rights in ETB schools. The Bishops have no legal responsibility under the Education Act 1998 in relation to the spiritual and moral education of students from minority religious backgrounds or from families with no religion.
Minorities who were impacted by the reversal of Circular Letter 0013/2018 were not consulted by the Department of Education or the Minister. These were our Constitutional rights, a private religious bodies had meetings with Department of Education official to lobby them to undermine our Constitutional rights. We were given no say in the matter.
This is an example of how the Catholic Church still has power and control over the Constitutional rights of families from minority backgrounds. The Department of Education showed deference to the Bishops while ignoring the Constitutional rights of parents.
What the Church claims and what the law says
The Catholic Bishops claim they are legally responsible for the spiritual and moral education of minorities in publicly funded schools. But under Article 42.1 of the Irish Constitution, it is parents who are responsible for the education of their children in religious or moral affairs, not the Bishops.
“The State acknowledges that the primary and natural educator of the child is the Family and guarantees to respect the inalienable right and duty of parents to provide, according to their means, for the religious and moral, intellectual, physical and social education of their children.”
The Catholic Church claim that under Section 9- (d ) of the Education Act 1998 they are responsible for the spiritual and moral education of all students including in ETB schools where they are the trustee.
Section 9-(d) of the Education Act 1998 states that:
A recognised school shall provide education to students which is appropriate to their abilities and needs and, without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, it shall use its available resources to-
promote the moral, spiritual, social and personal development of students and provide health education for them, in consultation with their parents, having regard to the characteristic spirit of the school.
But if Section 9 (d) of the Education Act 1998 gave responsibility for the spiritual and moral education of all students to the Catholic Church, then it would be unconstitutional. It doesn’t do that, nor was the intention behind it to hand over control over the constitutional rights of minority parents in relation to the religious and moral education of their children to a private religious body.
Catholic church guidelines claim unjustified authority
In the Guidelines on the Inclusion of Students of Different Beliefs in Catholic Secondary Schools, it states that:
“It is important that the school insists that this is not a ‘free class’ to do homework. The 1998 Education Act states that schools are required to promote the moral, spiritual, social and personal development of students (Section 9(d)). The allocated time on the timetable for Religious Education responds to this and students who opt out of the subject should be required to use this time to study something relating to their own religious tradition or belief, for example, a sacred text. (page 17)
The Guidelines then go on to suggest reading material that they claim is suitable for students who exercise their Constitutional rights under Article 44.2.4, Article 42.1 and Article 42.4) in relation to religious and moral education.
But the Guidelines selectively quote from the Section 9(d) of the Education Act. It says schools shall promote (not provide) spiritual and moral education, but “in consultation with their parents”. And it is the parents who are the primary and natural educator of the child, and who have an inalienable right and duty provide for the religious and moral education of their children.
The Guidelines also state that:
“In terms of the school’s arrangements for the rights of parents/guardians and students over 18 years to withdraw from participation in religious instruction, it needs to be clearly stated that Catholic schools teaching the NCCA curricula are not offering religious instruction.”
But claiming that the NCCA Religious Education course is not religious instruction has no legal standing, and doesn’t even make sense given the obligation on the State not to interfere in parental rights in relation to the religious and moral education of their children under Article 42.1 of the Constitution.
The Supreme Court has found that the rights of parents under Article 42.1 (religious education) must be read in the context of Article 44.2.4 – the right to not attend religious instruction. (pages 25, 26 Campaign to Separate Church and State v Minister for education – J. Barrington – Supreme Court).
The Catholic Church just ignores that and so does the Department of Education.
It is not up to the Catholic Church, the Department of Education, or the NCCA to decide for parents what is or is not suitable religious or moral education for their children. How can they claim this when the Supreme Court have clearly found that this Constitutional right belongs to parents.
State has duty to not interfere in the rights of parents
In the recent Burke case, the Supreme Court found that, under Article 42.1 of the Constitution, the State have a duty not to interfere in the inalienable right of parents in relation to religious and moral education of their children. (para 73 – J. O’Donnell Burke case – Supreme Court). Under Article 42.2, parents can provide this education at home or in schools funded and recognised by the state.
Justice O’Donnell states in the Burke case that:
“It is, in any event, part of the right and duty of parents to provide (and therefore the right of their children to receive) education under Article 42.1, which right the State has guaranteed to respect. The Irish text of Article 42.1 provides an important flavour in this regard:- “… ráthaíonn [An Stát] gan cur isteach ar cheart doshannta ná ar dhualgas doshannta tuistí chun oideachas … a chur ar fáil dá gclainn” which conveys the sense that the State cannot interfere with (cur isteach ar) the right of parents subject to the Constitution to provide education under Article 42.1, a right which Article 42.2 contemplates may take place at home.”
The Supreme Court also found that a right inures to the family under Article 42.1 of the Constitution to be the:
“primary and natural educator of the child” and the State is required “to respect the inalienable right and duty of parents to provide … for the religious and moral, intellectual, physical and social education of their children”. Hence, under Article 42.2, the mother and father of Elijah Burke and Naomi Power were “free to provide this education in their homes or in private schools or in schools recognised or established by the State.”(para 4 J. Charleton – Supreme Court – Burke case).
Justice Charleton also said that Article 42.4 accords with Art 41 (the authority of the family), a foundational pillar of the Constitution. Article 42.4 obliges the state to have ‘due regard’ for the rights of parents while ‘endeavouring’ to supplement and give reasonable aid to private and corporate educational initiatives.
Given the constitutional rights of parents, how can the Catholic Church claim that it is responsible for the spiritual and moral education of students from minority backgrounds in schools under their patronage?
It is quite clear from text and structure of the Constitution, and the Supreme Court judgements, that it is parents who are responsible for the religious and moral education of the children. Parents can provide this education at home while accessing other curriculum subject for their child in any publicly funded schools (Art 42.2). It is the duty of the state to have ‘due regard’ for this right when funding schools (Art 42.4).
Atheist Ireland will continue to campaign for the Constitutional rights of minorities attending publicly funded schools. Read online...
Will there be a wider variety of religious and belief symbols in Irish state schools? Listen to Michael Nugent's discussion with David Quinn and Pat Kenny on Newstalk radio on Friday
There is no reason to have religious symbols in schools the chair of Atheist Ireland has said.
By James Wilson
There is “no reason” to have religious symbols in schools, the chair of Atheist Ireland has said.
For generations, a crucifix on the wall or a statue of the Virgin have been common sights in schools across Ireland. However, as the nation becomes increasingly secular, the Government is drawing up plans that ensure new multi-denominational schools are “reflective” of the entire school community. Listen here...
Calling concerned teachers
If you are a teacher and concerned about unwanted religious influence contact Chris at teachers@atheist.ie
List of Atheist Ireland Submissions
Buy this book "Is My Family Odd About Gods?"
**Schools Special Offer**
Atheist Ireland are offering the book ‘Is my family odd about gods‘ free (excluding postage and packaging). This means that you can get this book for the total price of 10 euro. This offer is aimed at families with school going children, who would like to read this book. This offer is limited to one book per family unit and for postage within Ireland only. Read more...
Have you noticed that your school and your teachers may tell you one thing about religion, while some of your friends and family may have different ideas about god?
If you think that this is a little odd, then this book is for you. Buy this book here.
Lessons about Atheism
Atheist Ireland has published a set of free lesson plans about atheism for children aged 8 and up. We welcome feedback, which we will use to develop the lessons. You can download the lesson plans here.
 Be Good without Gods
Atheist Ireland 'Good Without Gods' Kiva team members have made loans of $38,200 to 1338 entrepreneurs in the developing world. You can join the team here. Before you chose a loan, make sure you do not support religious groups. You can check the loan partner's social and secular rating here.
Notme.ie
Atheist Ireland's 'notme.ie' is a place where people can publicly renounce the religion of their childhood. Currently there are 1968 symbolic defections. Many share their reasons for making a public symbolic defection which you can read here.
Petition on Schools Equality PACT
Atheist Ireland currently runs one petition - The Schools Equality PACT. This seeks to reform religious discrimination in state-funded schools. Currently this stands at 4,123 Help us reach it's target of 5000. Please sign and share this petition if you haven't already done so. Thank you.
Tell us what you think
Have you any feedback that you would like to give us on the Secular Sunday newsletter. What are we getting right? What could we improve on? Is there something you would like to see included? Drop us an email at secularsunday@atheist.ie.
Please consider joining or re-joining Atheist Ireland
Atheist Ireland is an entirely volunteer run organisation. We receive no grants or government funding to continue our campaign work. We rely entirely on membership fess and donations.
Annual membership is nominal; €25 waged, €10 unwaged/student and €40 for family membership. Please consider becoming a member. Membership means:
- You can help to build an ethical and secular Ireland.
- You have a say in determining policy and electing officers.
- You can attend members meetings and our AGM.
- You will have access to our members only Facebook group
- Your membership fee will go towards supporting our many campaigns.
You can join Atheist Ireland here.
Thank you for your continued support
Atheist Ireland Committee
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Places and Faces
Jane and Michael brave the Irish weather to plan Atheist Irelands next submission to the United Nations about the rights of children in Irish schools
Michael Nugent had a nice coffee and chat with David Quinn after they discussed the new ETB ethos document on the Pat Kenny Show on Friday. We both promote respectful dialogue between people who disagree on religious and political issues.
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Opinion and Media
Links to material on atheism, secularism, human rights, politics, science etc. curated from media and the blogosphere from Ireland and beyond. We have attributed the writers and included short extracts based on fair usage to enable readers to follow links to articles they find interesting. We aim to include a variety of diverse opinions and viewpoints.
Blogs & Opinions
National
Catholic Church role in health and schools can no longer be funded by State
By Peter Boylan
Recent revelations of the horrific extent and nature of sexual, psychological and physical abuse over decades at schools owned by the Catholic Spiritan order have prompted renewed shock and trauma on the one hand and the standard church response of belated apology and promises of reform on the other.
The horror of clerical abuse has been especially pervasive in Ireland given the extent of the control exerted by the church in this country. Read more...
Religious symbols in State schools must reflect ‘entire community’ under new plan
By Carl O'Brien
Religious symbols across hundreds of State-run primary and secondary schools must in future be reflective of the “entire community” in a new blueprint for the sector.
The framework on ethos, which applies to more than 200 second-level schools run by Education and Training Boards (ETBs) and primary schools, is the culmination of a decade-long consultation with schools and religious groups. Read more...
Special committee on assisted dying to be established as soon as humanly possible
By Tadgh McNally
THE SPECIAL COMMITTEE on voluntary assisted dying will be able to be established “as soon as humanly possible”, Ceann Comhairle Seán Ó Fearghaíl has said.It comes as People Before Profit TD Gino Kenny, who tabled the bill in 2020, said that the delay on the establishment of the special Oireachtas Committee was “extremely frustrating”. Read more...
‘We were a pure Catholic nation - and anyone who challenged that in any way was punished
By Órla Ryan
THROUGHOUT THE 20TH century, the Catholic Church exerted huge control over almost every aspect of people’s lives in Ireland. Becoming pregnant outside marriage was viewed as one of the most shameful things a person could do. Women and girls who found themselves in this situation were hidden away. Many of their children were, in turn, sent to industrial schools. In some families, more than one generation spent time in a mother and baby home, county home, industrial school or Magdalene laundry. Read ,more...
Everybody found ways not to know what they knew on abuse
By Fintan O’Toole
In July 2017, a middle-aged man called Ian Kidd entered the Catholic Church of St Agnes in the sprawling Dublin housing estate of Crumlin. He carried a can containing €5 worth of diesel.
He walked up to the altar and began pouring the oil on the floor, while shouting at the worshippers to “get out”. He had a cigarette and people feared he was going to set the diesel alight. He didn’t. Read more...
International
Explosive global report highlights dangers of mixing state and church
By the Freedom from Religion Foundation
The Freedom From Religion Foundation would like to highlight the findings of a newly released report from the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom that shows how essential separating religion from government is for combating discrimination.
The report, titled “A Global Overview of Official and Favored Religions and Legal Implications for Religious Freedom,” examines countries that either have an official state religion or that explicitly or implicitly favor one religious group. It finds a strong correlation between this official religious sponsorship and discrimination. The report explains that “while there are some governments that identify closely with a religion and provide robust protections of [religious freedom] and other universal rights to their populations . . . they represent the exception rather than the norm.” Read more...
Poll: Most Iranians want secular state and reject forced hijab
By the National Secular Society
A majority of Iranians support a secular state and oppose mandatory hijab, polling has found.
Seventy-four per cent of women and 71% of men in Iran disagree with laws imposing hijab on women, the Group for Analyzing and Measuring Attitudes in Iran (GAMAAN) found.
Of those opposed to compulsory hijab, 84% want to live in a secular state. Read more...
Being a humanist ‘impossible’ in Qatar
By Humanists UK
The World Cup has laid Qatar’s atrocious human rights record before the world, and has made it plain to all just how theocratic regimes threaten the expression of humanist values – free expression, equality, human rights, democracy. Read more...
If you are a blogger or vlogger writing or talking about atheism, secularism, ethics, skepticism, human rights etc. and would like us to include your work here please email the link to secularsunday@atheist.ie
Podcasts, Videos and Interviews
Ireland
International
Media Watch
News and views from Ireland and around the world. Sharing is not an endorsement.
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